Episode Two – Deathrow Diary Transcript

Emma Lancaster – Cultural Warning:

This is an Impact Studios production from the University of technology Sydney, Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners are advised that the following episode contains the names of people who have passed. The story you’re about to hear starts in a year 1900 and draws on the colonial archive. Listeners are advised. There may be words and descriptions that may be culturally sensitive, and which might not normally be used in certain public or community contexts. Terms from archival material used in this podcast reflect the attitude of the author or the period in which the item was written and may be considered inappropriate today. This story also contains information about acts of violence that may be distressing.

Leroy Parsons:

Last time on The Last Outlaws, Jimmy and Joe Governor go on the run after the murders of the Mawbey women and children.

Professor Katherine Biber:

Mrs. Mawbey and some of the other women and girls in the household had said that she’d thrown herself away by marrying a black fellow, suggesting that she could have done better.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

It’s thought that Mr. Mawbey was withholding rations that were owed to Jimmy.

Aunty Loretta Parsley:

When you work, you expect to be paid, but they said it wasn’t good enough and that he didn’t deserve to be paid and he didn’t just have Ethel. A lot of mouths to feed, a lot a commitment.

Professor Katherine Biber:

That’s the kind of spark that sets off what turns into a murderous rampage.

Leroy Parsons:

After almost three months on the run, the brothers are outlawed by the New South Wales colony, which declared them guilty, wanted dead are alive. While on the run, Jimmy is shot in the mouth by a local hunter and a second shot hits him in the hip. In the heat of the chase, the Governor brothers become separated on the banks of the Forbes River. Jimmy is on foot and all alone for another 12 days. Finally, more than 450 kilometers from the Mawbey home, Jimmy is captured by vigilantes. Joe’s whereabouts are unknown.

Leroy Parsons:

Now, The Last Outlaws, episode two, death row diary.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

I’m Kaitlyn Sawrey and in this episode, we follow how colonial bigwigs grapple with Australia’s last outlaws on the cusp of federation. Jimmy finds unexpected support at the highest levels of the colonial system, and with the newspapers rabid for headlines, no one wanted to make a wrong move.

Professor Katherine Biber:

Jimmy Governor was captured by civilians in Bobin outside of Wingham, and when they first handed him over to the first police officer, a junior bush constable who was completely out of his depth, and this bush constable, his name was Thomas Stone, was taking into custody the most notorious murderer in Australia, and saw it as an opportunity to have a chat with him.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

You remember Katherine Biber. She’s the professor of law at the University of Technology Sydney, and she’s been digging into this story for over 20 years, and Katherine says this bush Constable put his foot in its straight away.

Professor Katherine Biber:

They had this conversation in which Jimmy Governor made admissions to him, and so at this time, just as today, there are rules about how police officers can take admissions from suspects. The rule is that you have to caution the person that you’re a police officer and anything they say can be taken down in evidence, and Jimmy Governor was not properly cautioned.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Jimmy spills the beans to this police officer, which is then obtained by and published in the Sydney Morning Herald. In this detailed statement, Jimmy admits to the murders and implies that Joe wasn’t present for the Mawbey massacre and that Jimmy himself had pushed him into becoming a bush ranger. The publication of this interview with Jimmy, without him being properly cautioned, gets the bush constable in massive trouble.

Professor Katherine Biber:

The question about the admissibility of his admissions went all the way up to the inspector general of police, which is the most senior police officer, who kicked off this really angry correspondence. There are all these telegraphs and memos that fly around the country. “Bring me Constable Stone’s head on a plate. What was he doing? He must be admonished. What was he thinking? Who was going to take responsibility for this?”

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Jimmy’s case had to be played by the book because everyone was watching.

Professor Katherine Biber:

We’re just coming around the fence of the Darlinghurst Criminal Court Complex.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

We’re headed to Darlinghurst Courthouse in the middle of Sydney where Jimmy stood trial 120 years ago. The courthouse hasn’t changed much since then. Sandstone walls, big Grecian columns, and when Jimmy entered Darlinghurst Court, he entered as an outlaw, which made him a convicted felon, guilty as charged. But Jimmy was the first outlaw to be brought it alive, so what do you do with him?

Professor Katherine Biber:

At the beginning of Jimmy Governor’s trial, his lawyer basically stood up and said, “You can’t try someone who’s already been found guilty. That process has already concluded.”

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

He’s an outlaw.

Professor Katherine Biber:

He’s an outlaw, so either you’ll have to execute him or you’ll have to let him go.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Surprising from a defense lawyer, right? Kill my client or let him go? It’s a bold move. But Jimmy’s lawyer was actually very good and his argument forced the judge to overturn the outlawry so the trial could proceed. But the question that kept digging at Katherine was how did Australia’s most wanted murderer get such an esteemed lawyer?

Professor Katherine Biber:

He did have good representation, but his good representation was pointed to him by the Crown. So this is kind of one of the hypotheses of my project. Jimmy Governor was an outlaw and he probably was guilty of all of these violent murders, primarily of white women and children. Yet every legal defense, every legal process, every legal opportunity was provided for him. I’m interested in why, and my hypothesis is that this was all occurring in the atmosphere of federation and that many of the legal and political figures who were involved in his case were at the same time involved in this nation making project that was federation, and they thought, what kind of nation are we trying to make? We want to make a nation under the rule of law with the proper administration of justice, where everyone who comes before the courts has a fair trial with good legal representation and every opportunity is given to them under the law.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Katherine also says everyone involved in the trial was very aware that the media was following their every move.

Professor Katherine Biber:

Everyone wanted to be seen to be doing a good job in case, once the new nation commences, they have the opportunity to advance themselves professionally. So it was kind of a high profile case to be seen to be doing a good job so that when there were more good jobs on offer, you might get one of them.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Strangely Jimmy isn’t made to answer for all five Mawbey murders. We don’t know why, but in the end, he’s only put on trial for the death of the 21-year-old school teacher who lived at the Mawbey home, Helen Kerz. Jimmy’s lawyer argued that her death was a result of extreme provocation. Katherine believes this was the only move the defense could would make.

Professor Katherine Biber:

The defense theory was really a provocation defense, that he was provoked by members of the Mawbey family, particularly the Mawbey women, because his wife had been taunted for marrying a black man and that she was so distressed and traumatized by the taunting that she’d received from the women in the Mawbey household, which in included Helen Kerz, that he was provoked and not able to control his own actions into committing those crimes. A provocation defense essentially reduces murder to manslaughter.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

It would mean the death penalty was off the table. His life was at stake. On the first day of Jimmy’s trial, the courtroom was packed out.

Professor Katherine Biber:

There was so much public interest in the trial that there weren’t enough seats in the courtroom for everyone who wanted one, and so the sheriff had to give tickets to members of the public.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

The prosecution calls a witness and the crowd murmurs. It’s Ethel Governor, Jimmy’s wife. She’s pregnant and is standing to give evidence for the prosecution. The judge asked her, “Do you understand that being a married woman, you are not obliged to give evidence against your husband?”

Professor Katherine Biber:

She says that she does understand that and she proceeds anyway.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

So how do the newspapers describe Ethel’s appearance?

Professor Katherine Biber:

She’s described as wearing a blue printed frock with a lace trimming. She’s wearing a straw hat with a black band around it. She’s sitting resting on her elbows in the witness box, and she’s got her cheek resting on her knuckles. She has a really clear and steady tone of voice and that mostly she’s looking at the person who’s questioning her, but occasionally she glances at her husband.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

So how does Jimmy react when he sees Ethel on the witness stand?

Professor Katherine Biber:

The newspaper accounts say that he watches her closely whilst she testifies. One of them says he never took his eyes from his wife’s face. He’s concentrating, he’s attentive. One of the accounts describes him as being at first slightly agitated, but then suppressing his feelings and sitting still pulling at his mustache whilst he’s watching her testify.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

So what does Ethel say about Jimmy? Does she give him up? Does she kind of say, yes, he was to blame.

Professor Katherine Biber:

She testifies that Mrs. Mawbey and Ms. Kerz had said to her that, “It was a wonder that a nice looking girl like me would throw myself away on a black fellow, and they only said that once to me.” Jimmy Governor’s lawyer asks her if it made a difference to her own private happiness, and she said, “Yes, it did,” that, “Once in the camp, I went down on my knees and prayed, “Ph Lord, take me away from here. I cannot stand what these people are saying about me.”

Professor Katherine Biber:

I think that’s part of its meaning, that that racialised taunting caused her to be very unhappy and she was sharing her unhappiness with her husband and that eventually he couldn’t bear it anymore and he said, “Let’s go and talk to them right now and resolve it.” But her evidence is that she was not one of the people who went to the Mawbey house to resolve it. Her evidence is that he went with Jackie Underwood, each of them armed, and that she stayed back at the camp and so did Joe Governor, who was asleep at the time. It’s not clear why she is testifying against her husband, but there is some speculation that she’s doing that to protect herself from any legal consequences for her own potential involvement in any of these crimes.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Which is interesting because Jimmy’s statement is a little bit different.

Professor Katherine Biber:

Jimmy’s statement is quite different, partly about who was involved and partly about what the trigger was.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

On the second day of the trial, Jimmy takes the stand.

Professor Katherine Biber:

So when Jimmy Governor gives his dock statement, that is the only time we hear an unmediated or a less mediated account from him, but he does give his own account in his dock statement at his trial, and he talks about who went to the Mawbey house.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Here’s how it was reported by Sydney Morning. Harold on November 24th, 1900.

Leroy Parsons:

Me and my missus had some words about the Mawbey’s at the camp and I said, “Drop it. Don’t tell me no more of it.” So she said to me, “They rub it in. They do as they like with you.” I said to her, “You come down and I will see about it.” So we got ready and made off. The judge asked, “Who got ready?” Jimmy replies, “Me and my wife with Joe and Jackie Underwood.”

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

In his statement, Jimmy says after asking for rations, he went to the Mawbey family home to confront Mrs. Mawbey.

Leroy Parsons:

“Did you tell my missus that any white woman who married a black fella ought to be shot? I says, did you ask my wife about our private business? Did you ask her what sort of nature did I have, black or white, or what color was it?”

Leroy Parsons:

With that, Mrs. Mawbey and Ms. Kerz turned around and laughed at me with a sneering laugh. Before I got words out of my mouth, I struck Mrs. Mawbey on the mouth with this nulla-nulla and Ms. Kerz said, “Poo, you black rubbish. You want shooting for marrying a white woman?” With that, I hit her with my hand on the jaw and I knocked her down. Then I got out of temper and got hammering them. I lost control of myself. I do not remember anything after that.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Jimmy seems to be in full confession mode. He says that Ethel and Joe aren’t innocent. They were there for the murders, but they had all agreed to lie about Ethel and Joe’s whereabouts to protect them.

Leroy Parsons:

We all agreed to say Joe wasn’t there, nor my missus. We made all that up, you see.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Jimmy is asked if he has any more to say some newspapers report his reply as …

Leroy Parsons:

I am speaking straight from my heart, and I am favoring nobody.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

While others report it as …

Leroy Parsons:

I am speaking straight from my heart, and I am afraid of nobody.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

I mean, what do you think is the more likely one? He’s favoring nobody or he’s afraid of nobody?

Professor Katherine Biber:

We don’t know what he really said at this time in New South Wales history, we didn’t have professional stenographers, which are court reporters, so usually newspaper accounts are very reliable, but in this case we have two slightly different transcriptions. It’s not possible to resolve what he really said.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

So it does kind of call into question the accuracy of the archives. What does it make you think about?

Professor Katherine Biber:

I think I always have a question of about the accuracy of the archives. I think that whilst it’s very seductive to go to the archives and read some old document, sometimes a handwritten document, and it makes you feel like, “Well, this was written in the hand of the person who was there at the time that it happened, it must absolutely be true,” we also know that all historical church requires interpretation and subjectivity and the drawing of inferences. So the archives are always not some pure and true source. They always require us to draw inferences, make interpretations and occasionally to speculate and put some subjectivity into interpretations.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

So who do we trust? Nobody? The jury deliberates for just 12 minutes before returning with a verdict.

Professor Katherine Biber:

I have the handwritten notes that the judge made during the trial. Justice Owen kept a handwritten notebook, and in that notebook, he writes, “I sum up, jury retires 12:15 PM and returns 12:27. Verdict guilty. I pass sentence of death.”

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

That’s a very quick turnaround.

Professor Katherine Biber:

That’s 12 minutes by the judge’s watch.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

The jury finds Jimmy Governor guilty in the murder of Helen Kerz. He’s said to stand and stare at the jurors, showing no emotions. The judge passes a sentence of death. It’s reported that Jimmy laughs and declares …

Leroy Parsons:

It’s all right. I will go to heaven.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Jimmy is led away from the docks to a tunnel underneath the courtroom. It leads to the prison next door, where Jimmy enters the condemned cells for the first time.

Deborah Beck:

This tunnel led straight to the cells where they were kept underneath the court. So if they would go from here under the tunnel into the cell, so it was quite forbidding and frightening. I mean, the steps up into the actual courtroom are really steep and that’s the only entrance. When Jimmy was condemned to death, he knew that was the last time he was going to see anything outside the jail.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Historian Deborah Beck is leading us through the national art school in Darlinghurst, Sydney. The school was once the prison that held Jimmy Governor. So let’s go in.

Deborah Beck:

Yeah. There is actually an art installation here at the moment, so we can’t go all the way through.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

We’re standing right where Jimmy and junior prison guards called warders spent day after day together in a tiny cell.

Deborah Beck:

So it eight feet by 10 feet with two little windows at the top, and that was all the air that he had and the guard was there the whole time. There was nothing in there except for a bed, the pale for a toilet and a little table.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Must have been so strange for the warder to be cooped up essentially with this condemned person.

Deborah Beck:

Well, they’re confined in the same conditions as the condemned prisoners and that’s their work environment. So if you think of these condemned prisoners, being people who’ve committed the worst offenses, the people who do duty over them are confined in the exact same conditions, which is interesting to observe. Jimmy Governor was being guarded by some of the most junior warders in the system and this was probably one of the toughest jobs that you could do, would be to be confined in a condemned cell with a condemned prisoner 24 hours a day.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

So these junior prisoner guards were stuck in a cell with Jimmy Governor all day long. If that wasn’t weird enough, in Katherine’s research, she found a reference to a diary on Jimmy Governor while he was on death row and she thought, “That’s interesting, what’s that about?” So she went to the New South Wales State Archives to track it down. Could this diary be the missing link to understanding Jimmy?

Professor Katherine Biber:

I requested access to the actual thing and they said, “Oh no, it’s a precious rare record. You can’t have the actual thing.” So I kind of left it for a while and then I had this research assistant, Brent, and he was this kind of young, charming, nerdy guy who used to hang out at the desk with the archivists and he is like, “oh, let’s have a go at this Jimmy Governor diary,” and they gave it to him and he called me from the archives. He goes, “I’ve got the diary,” and I’m like, “Is it in your hands?” He goes, “I’ve got latex gloves on, but it’s in my hand.” He had to leave the reading room to make this phone call. I’m like, “Oh my God, describe it, describe it.” He says, I’ve got my good camera with me today. I’m going to photograph every page of it.

Professor Katherine Biber:

So I’ve actually never physically handled the diary, but I made him tell me like, “How big is it when it’s in your hands? How much space does it occupy? How heavy is it? How bedraggled is it?” Because all of the covers have come loose from the spine, but he took these amazing high quality digital photos of it.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Katherine has spent hours and hours pouring over these pictures, trying to figure out what it all means. Like an archeologist scanning pyramid walls for clues, it was a series of markings that helped her decipher the code.

Professor Katherine Biber:

And then you can see not only the words, but also all of the little markings that are administrative markings. So it’s got initials on every page and you can also see what pen these people use. Sometimes they use a blue pencil. Sometimes it’s a red ink, sometimes black ink and you figure out who’s got what pen and there’s four pages which have these other initials. And I’m like, “Who’s that?” And those initials were the comptroller general of prisons. This was a guy called Frederick Neitenstein, who was this really important prison reformer.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Frederick Neitenstein, head of the prison system in New South Wales was ex-military and ran the prisons with precision. Every inch of this facility was under his control.

Professor Katherine Biber:

He’s said To be a person who expects absolute obedience from those who work for him.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

But Neitenstein was a hard ass for a reason. He believed that through regimen, he could reform the lives of the inmates. So he enacted strict routines and in an effort to find out what worked, he documented everything. He had this idea that the prison could be a moral hospital and turn prisoners into good citizens.

Professor Katherine Biber:

Well, I suppose today he’s not well-known, but in his day he was regarded as one of the great social reformers.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Right. So he had big ideas about prisons.

Professor Katherine Biber:

He had ideas about prisons, about discipline for young people. He had ideas about social hygiene, moral hygiene, and this was all part of his plan. He believed in discipline, in timetables, in drills, marching, grading, note-taking.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

It’s like a hard ass with a purpose.

Professor Katherine Biber:

Yeah. He thought that he was a force for good.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

But Neitenstein was not just keeping tabs on prisoners. He was keeping a close eye on the guards too.

Professor Katherine Biber:

Just as much as the prisoners are under surveillance, so is every single warder under surveillance and all of the people who were 10 minutes late for duty or neglected their sentry post or stole money all have judicial process. You’ll see the outcome of that judicial process. They might have lost their monthly day off. They might lose a rank. Sometimes they’re transferred. So you can see the surveillance of the prison staff and there’s this entire judicial system inside the jail. He’s a total micromanager.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

So when a famous prisoner like Jimmy Governor was sentenced to death, Frederick Neitenstein wanted to keep track of that too. They kept a diary of Jimmy’s thoughts, feelings, dreams, anything at all the prison staff watching over him thought was relevant or interesting. It’s official title is …

Andrew MacRae – Voice Actor for Warder John Dwyer:

Diary of Officer Doing Duty Over Jimmy Governor.

Professor Katherine Biber:

This is actually an artifact of colonial prison administration at the highest level. Whilst it’s kind of crude and a little bit inept, that also tells you a story about how they’re kind of making up this idea of how to imprison and have under surveillance this unique prisoner. “What can we do? Let’s just record him. Let’s just make up a way of recording him. Let’s have a diary.” “Who’s going to keep this diary?” “Oh, these three random guys who do duty over him.” “What do they know how to do?” “Well, nothing. Let’s make some questions up for them to answer every eight hours.” They’re making up administrative processes explicitly to find new ways to manage and learn from this unique challenging person.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

The entries are short. It reads like a log book, but it paints a picture of Jimmy’s experience on death row, even if it’s filtered through the eyes of the white guards. He was fed three square meals a day, put on weight, given cigarettes and was allowed visitors. In over a hundred entries, one guard’s log stand out. His name is John Dwyer. He’s new to the job, as junior as they come, and locked in a cell with Jimmy. One man free, one on death row.

Andrew MacRae – Voice Actor for Warder John Dwyer:

Darlinghurst jail, December 10th, 1900. Officer John Dwyer, probationary warder. Conduct of prisoner, good. He gets downhearted at times. Speaks very harshly of his wife. Says she ought to be hanged as well as him as she is guilty. Calls on the Lord at times to help him. Anything important? Complains of his teeth and jaw being very painful. Is he sullen or cheerful? Cheerful at times, sullen in others. Does demeanor indicate suicide? No. Does he eat well? Yes.

Andrew MacRae – Voice Actor for Warder John Dwyer:

Darlinghurst jail, December 16th, 1900. John Dwyer. Conduct of prisoner? He’s been talking about being shut up like a pig, swears a great deal and said he would not stay in his cell much longer. Anything important to be recorded here? Said he would hang himself and the warder that went to stop him would have his brains knocked out. Does demeanor indicate suicide? Yes, it does, at times.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

During his time on death row, Jimmy had several visitors, but one stood out. His wife, Ethel, who despite testifying against Jimmy at his trial, continues to visit him several times a week.

Andrew MacRae – Voice Actor for Warder John Dwyer:

Conduct of prisoner, anything important to be recorded here? He said that waiting makes him bad tempered and that he wishes it was all over. Visited by his wife.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

He also has regular visits from the prison chaplain. Eventually Jimmy gets into a fight with the chaplain, saying he would punch him in the nose, complaining that the chaplain was trying to drive him instead of leading him. For a period he’s described as very sulky and sullen, saying the waiting was getting to him.

Andrew MacRae – Voice Actor for Warder John Dwyer:

December 25th, 1900. Conduct of prisoner, calmed down, singing native songs and reading his Bible. Said he was sorry for his words to the chaplain.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

But then something seems to change.

Professor Katherine Biber:

So as you move further and further into the diary, you see repeated references to Jimmy Governor being very quiet, and that becomes almost kind of poetic and rhythmical. This very quiet, very quiet.

Andrew MacRae – Voice Actor for Warder John Dwyer:

January 2nd, 1901. Conduct of prisoner, good, though very quiet. January 3rd, 1901. Conduct of prisoner, good. Constantly reading his Bible in hymn book. He’s very quiet and orderly. January 9th, 1901, John Dwyer. Conduct of prisoner, he has very little to say always reading and praying.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

We’ll never really know what was going through Jimmy’s head, but as we read through the diary, it felt like he was going through the stages of grief before finally accepting his fate. Without warning or purpose, the diary stops.

Professor Katherine Biber:

So just like we don’t know why the diary was ever kept, we also don’t know why the diary ever stopped. So that it’s one of the little mysteries of the archive.

Leroy Parsons:

At 9:00 AM, January the 18th, six days after the last diary entry, Jimmy is led from his cell to the hangman’s noose, just 20 feet away. There are reports that Jimmy slept well on that last night and had good breakfast an hour before Jimmy leaves his cell, all other prisoners are locked inside theirs and there is a silence throughout the jail. In the courtyard, outside the gallows, a small crowd gathers, including Mr. Mawbey’s brother. Reporters who attend the hanging say Jimmy had no final words and walked to the gallows smoking a cigarette accompanied by the chaplain. Just before the cap and rope were adjusted, Jimmy threw the cigarette from his lips. The Singleton Argus reported the bolt was drawn and death was said to be instantaneous.

Professor Katherine Biber:

So the place that used to be the gallows is now this small, strange triangular shaped toilet. It’s quite high up and it’s quite anomalous to think that this small toilet was a place where more than 50 people were executed for their crimes. It seems thoughtless, it seems inconsiderate, and it seems just inappropriate. It’s a really bad match for what really happened in this place and what is now happening in this place. I feel like some more creative and sensitive thought is needed to reimagine that space, to remember the lives and the deaths of the people who were executed there.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

There is no plaque to mark the hangman’s toilet. Jimmy would later be buried at Brookwood Cemetery in an unmarked grave. Even though the archives tell us that Ethel testified against Jimmy in the trial, there are other ways of seeing their relationship. Aunty Loretta Ethel Parsley, Jimmy and Ethel’s great-granddaughter, tells us her family story.

Aunty Loretta Parsley:

Jimmy wanted to take the fall for what happened because it was his family. So he wanted Joe and Ethel exonerated. He was protecting them as well, and Ethel can go back to white society with her mother and father with the children, and that’s what she’d after Jimmy was hung. She came back down to Wollongong and that’s where she gave birth in April, 1901. She gave birth to my grandmother.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

Ethel would go on to remarry another Aboriginal man and have eight more children. Loretta tells us that even though Ethel remarried her love for Jimmy now ever wavered.

Aunty Loretta Parsley:

Don’t forget, Ethel was very, very loyal to Jimmy right up until the end. When Ethel died, she wanted to be buried up there with Jimmy. What does that say?

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

So do we know where Ethel is buried?

Aunty Loretta Parsley:

Yes, but no one will tell you and we don’t like to share that in information because there are still people who will want to go and look at the places so we don’t divulge it. I think that was her request to return there, to Rookwood, and that was her first love. When you fall in love really deeply with that person, that’s the person that will always be in your memory. I believe Ethel and Jimmy had that connection, a strong connection to commitment. What a beautiful love story.

Kaitlyn Sawrey:

As our time with Loretta came to a close, sitting around the table with the light fading, Katherine had a realization about the history she’d been chasing for 20 years.

Aunty Loretta Parsley:

Come on. I’m just starting to get second wind here. Come on. Yeah, I’ll have another drink of this milk. It must be this milk.

Professor Katherine Biber:

I’ve been listening to you today and I think you said at the outset was your hope for this conversation was that at the end of it, we really humanized Jimmy Governor, that we remembered that he was a person, that he was loved, that he has family, that he cared about his family and that his legacy should be in all of that context. In the course of my research, I’ve gathered probably more than 2000 different bits and pieces of archival records and books and sources and articles, and I’m just not really sure how to interpret the colonial archive now. So whilst I feel like I’d like to tell the story properly from your perspective, I also don’t now know what to do with all of the material that’s in that archive and what that does for the story, if it enables me to tell a story that you would think was a proper telling of this story, or if you think it would just further traumatize or violate the history of Jimmy Governor as a person. I know that’s not really a question. It’s just an anxiety that I’ve now.

Aunty Loretta Parsley:

An anxiety, oh my goodness me. I think I’ll come and council you. I think to look at the colonial impact in that short time that Jimmy had, okay, because he was born in 1875 and lived to 1901, that’s a small portion of one person’s life. Very short lived. And then bring it forward to a family that has survived through Ethel who maintained that family line. So to be able to put it on a timeline of history and historical context, to bring it to Jimmy being hung, there were lots of injustices occurring before that, and he became the victim of that injustice by daring to marry a white woman. So the two culture have been entwined and then from that became that short impact of their lives.

Aunty Loretta Parsley:

Because then Ethel went on to live her life. Her life could have been different where they hung her too. There’s still that love story of two people’s lives, that this is about two people who cultures come together. It’s like I said to you about Trevor and I. When he took me home, it was like World War III had occurred. Trevor and I walked those two cultures together for 45 years. I wish Jimmy and Ethel could have done that.

Leroy Parsons:

In his death row diary, Jimmy dreams of running away to America. In the same entry, Jimmy mentions his brother, Joe, which begs the question what’s happened to Joe?

Leroy Parsons:

Surrender or I’ll shoot.

Leroy Parsons:

Next time on the Last Outlaws, we delve into the murky waters of race science. We’ll find out what happened to Joe

Katherine Biber:

Local people would come and strike a match on the soul of his feet.

Leroy Parsons:

And you’ll find out my connection to this story.